From ResearchID.org

Contents 1 Differentiating from Volition 1.1 Volition 1.2 Imagination 1.3 Foresight

Differentiating from Volition

How is the quantitative measure of volition different from the measure of imagination or foresight? Ungtss 19:16, 29 September 2007 (CDT)

Volition

- is measured by the number and variety of parts used to achieve an overall functional goal of an object. The reason this is important is because each varied part requires separate problem definition from infinite possibilities that can only be achieved by volition.

Perhaps we need a clearer definition of "volition" then. When I think "measure volition" I think "how much do you want to do something?" While a greater number of different parts and problem definitions is greater indiciation that there was SOME volition, I don't know that it provides a meaningful "measure" of volition, at least insofar as I'm defining the term. What's the difference in "volition required" for a simple machine versus a microchip?

Also, how do we divide "separate parts" to measure their number and variety? Is each ORGAN a seperate part? Each cell? Each organelle? What's our distinction criterion so we can quantify them? Ungtss 14:48, 30 September 2007 (CDT)

Let me think more about the definition of volition and get back to you in the "Detecting Volition in design" page. --Eugene 16:59, 30 September 2007 (CDT)

Imagination

- is measured mostly in memory bytes; however, automatic model sorting and the ability to change constants like gravity, color, and relative sizes of objects are important to thought experiments.

See above -- what about the use of subsystems? Ungtss 14:48, 30 September 2007 (CDT)

The reuse of subsystem designs in new designs certainly makes it easier to build higher technology. However, please consider the fact that Even though apes have some level of extrapolation ability, they do not seem to have a the ability to go more than 2 levels deep to use existing tools. Apes can choose a twig, (1) extrapolate a need to clean leaves from the twig, (2) extrapolate the results from inserting the twigs into a log opening to extract bugs to eat. This limit in extrapolation ability is likely in a more limited imagination tool-set than that of humans.

Absolutely -- in a simple design without subsystems, it's easy to measure the number of extrapolations required ... but what do we do when we have subsystems? If I grab a bunch of public domain C++ functions off the web and turn them into a program, I don't get credit for the extrapolations within the subsystems ... only for the extrapolations between the subsystems ... that makes our measurement a little more complex. Ungtss 17:12, 30 September 2007 (CDT)

However, humans go far deeper in extrapolation levels even though some of us seem to have less imagination ability than others. --Eugene 16:59, 30 September 2007 (CDT)

Foresight

- is measured in the distances, accuracy and precision of extrapolation ability. Coordinated extrapolation of two or more part positions or conditions can be detected in irreducibly complex (IC) designs.

--Eugene 05:18, 30 September 2007 (CDT)

Can we infer those distances, accuracy, and precision of extrapolation ability from the designed object? If so, how?

Yes we can examine the precision of functionality of the design if we can recognize the purpose. The design detected in a sundial, as compared to a water clock, as compared to a wristwatch, as compared to an atomic clock all indicate increasing foresight and imagination of the designer. --Eugene 16:59, 30 September 2007 (CDT)

My intuition agrees with you ... but how do we MEASURE that? Ungtss 17:12, 30 September 2007 (CDT)

I hope this discussion is somehow useful to you and the article -- I've never tried to think along these lines before and it's raising all sorts of questions I've never really asked. Ungtss 14:48, 30 September 2007 (CDT)

I really appreciate your constructive criticism and suggestions Ungtss. You are helpful, so please continue. --Eugene 16:59, 30 September 2007 (CDT)

Will do -- this is fun:). Ungtss 17:12, 30 September 2007 (CDT)

--Eugene 07:43, 1 October 2007 (CDT)